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17 Comments

  1. Posted January 3, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    After reading all this article, I can only class myself as fortunate that Lorelle has spent so much time on giving me feedback for no cost. Thus I have to class her as an expert and generous – perhaps to a fault

    Perhaps she will get her reward in the hereafter – if one exists. Since she travels the world, I wonder if she ever gets to Australia. If she gets to Melbourne, I can show her the sights and give her a meal – or even two.

    • Posted January 3, 2012 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

      @Bill: LOL! One of my business partners lives in Melbourne. I’ll be talking about him in an upcoming article. I’ll be there soon. And thank you for the kind words and support.

  2. Posted January 3, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    I feel like I’m probably still undercharging somewhat for my web design ($500-1500 for a WordPress site), but I have long learnt the lesson of seriously undercharging. It’s not worth it. If you advertise yourself as cheap, you’ll get the dregs of clients and they’re the worst to deal with.

    • Posted January 3, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

      @Dave: Bad clients are horrible no matter what your business. The same applies to quick fix and vague promises for cheap. It’s a two way street.

  3. Posted January 3, 2012 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Does Melbourne know of the honour that you have bestowed? I hope that the Mayor will arrange to give you the keys of the city and a decent reception.

    If you have any time my offer of sights and a meal or two still stands.

    How long will you stay? Will you give any lectures> If so, when and where?

    In what suburb does your partner live?

    • Posted January 4, 2012 at 1:19 am | Permalink

      LOL! No plans yet, just a lot of talk. No clue where exactly Kym lives. You can find more about him on Kym Huynh. I’m sure he will alert the mayor to start shining the keys. Hee hee.

  4. Posted January 4, 2012 at 12:48 am | Permalink

    I find that many companies here seriously underestimate the cost of hiring someone to produce an integrated web presence and are completely put off when they find out how much those rates are. My daughter, who has been working in Germany for the past 5 years, says that compared to what companies there charge for similar work, Israeli companies grossly undercharge. What I’m trying to say is that, in spite of the Web having a global reach, each local market seems to have it’s own tolerances.

    • Posted January 4, 2012 at 1:19 am | Permalink

      @Jennifer, you are exactly right. These are numbers from within the United States and Canada and not representative of the world. I should have mentioned that. Thanks!

  5. Posted January 4, 2012 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    I found this extremely enlightening. I don’t offer web development services to the general public anymore, but I will build sites for friends who have very minimal needs and the ability to handle upkeep on their own. In most cases, I’ll do it on trade.

    Last summer, a good friend was quoted $8k for a website by the folks who designed his logo. True that they have talented designers and would have created a more visually appealing final product, but he didn’t NEED an $8K website. I knocked off a decent WordPress-based site in about 20 hours and let him pay me what he thought it was worth. I’m still drinking the 8-1/2 CASES of wine he gave me. (Did I mention he was an award-winning winemaker?) Since his wine retails for $16-$22/bottle, I was actually paid more than I expected. (I was hoping for 4 cases.)

    I do realize, however, that it’s pretty much impossible to make a living doing business on trade. Until recently, I made most of my living as a writer. As you so astutely pointed out, the going rate for professional writing is falling throughg the floor. This has forced me to reconsider my stand on developing websites. Although my winemaker friend can always pay me with his excellent wine, I will be looking for real money from future clients — even the winemakers. Now I know how much I should be asking for. Thanks!

    • Posted January 4, 2012 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      @Maria: As I watched my writing and photography income fall faster than a meteoroid as web publishing shot upward without the income to support those careers, I had to switch things around, too. Luckily, I adored the code behind a web page from day one.

      I also had expectations before I read Collier’s article. From my perspective, there is a glut in the market of “amateur” (using the true definition of the word) web designers, especially for WordPress. The surveys I’ve seen targeted “professionals” but I bet the average site design price is closer to your wine barter (though not in award-winning prestige). As I enter the world of academia, it’s more important than ever to get these students thinking about changing their rates so I can eat and pay my mortgage in our shared industry so web design and development doesn’t go the way of writing and photography. It’s going to take a lot of education around the world to increase the level of proficiency (Design by the School of Google Search ain’t it) and appropriate rates.

    • Posted January 4, 2012 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

      I can tell you that my friend’s designers were very upset to learn that he’d farmed the work out to a friend. They warned him that it would probably look pretty bad — most sites created by amateurs (in the real sense of the word) are gawdawful. But I’ve been around the block a few times — been building Web sites since 1994 (not a typo) — and I can throw together something respectable. WordPress makes it easy. In the end, what I delivered works now at a price he can afford. If the winery really takes off and he wants to upgrade his Web image, he can always call them. BTW, you can find the site here, if you’re interested: http://www.beaumontcellars.com/.

      My writing career has been devastated by the rise of the web. I went from a healthy six figures down to a decent five in the span of three years. Ouch. There are multiple reasons: (1) there are fewer and fewer beginning to intermediate computer users (my typical audience), (2) anyone on the Web can Google an answer faster and easier than looking it up in a book, (3) new writers are willing to write for little or nothing to break into the field, (4) publishers are publishing fewer books, etc. The list goes on and on. There’s no way around it other than to diversify.

      Oddly, I got my very best complement as I was finishing up my most recent book. My editor of many years, who has been working with a lot of new writers as the publisher attempts to cut costs by using inexperienced authors, told me that it was a pleasure and a relief to work with someone who actually knew what she was doing. Okay, well if that’s the case, why not give more of us old timers more of the work? If they want quality, they know where to get it — and what it costs.

      I’m with you all the way. There’s a point where the “breaking into the field” portion of a career should end and, with it, the low compensation rates. We need to stand firm and be compensated properly.

  6. Posted January 4, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    I have sent the Mayor a cloth to help him shine the keys. Further my wife (a wildlife carer) has about a dozen birds in cages in my house that every day she releases them to fly around the house screeching – what I assume amounts to obscenities. When You visit me she has promised to keep them in their cages. Please do not fall over with anticipated excitement about the many honours that will come your way.

  7. Posted January 5, 2012 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    This article is a fantastic resource for me. It’s been very difficult to find pricing information for what I do. Others I know who do it are shy about sharing their rates for the usual reasons, I think. They don’t know if they are charging enough or they don’t want others undercutting their prices. I’ve been basing my rates on my skill level and the complexity of what I am customizing for a client. Usually $300-$500 per WordPress install including a custom theme design. No serious coding.. mostly CSS and maybe some custom ‘loops’ for content display. I can see I have a lot of reading to do and I need to branch out with my skill set. I need to offer a broader service to my clients that fulfills business needs beyond having a website. I need to focus on WordPress as an advertising nexus for social media outlets and newsletters that the client can manage on their own once set up properly. You have given me so many ideas for expanding what I do from the mere technical to more towards providing a business service.
    I have lots to learn though before I move in that direction. I don’t believe in the “fake it ’til you make it” mantra I’ve heard before. You can make more money that way sooner.. but you can easily get in over your head as well and be unable to deliver what the client is paying for.

    -Matthew

    • Posted January 6, 2012 at 12:34 am | Permalink

      @Matthew: Pricing projects like this is complicated indeed. The information from this survey is generalized information, I’m sure. A simple WordPress install with a free Theme shouldn’t be a big deal nor a time consumer, and working with a knowledgeable and trustworthy client may shave 20 hours off a project where you might need to add another 40 hours to a project if a client is picky and a micro-manager. Lots of compromise in the negotiation of a project.

      I’m glad you don’t support the “fake it til you make it” as that is what gives our industry a bad name. Good for you!

  8. Posted January 8, 2012 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Good day, Lorelle:

    Even in today’s economy where there’s more down than up, we need reminders like your well written article that charging fair rates for fair value is a good thing.

    Thank you for taking the time to remind all of us of the value we can add for our clients.

  9. Posted January 12, 2012 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    I find that many companies here seriously underestimate the cost of hiring someone to produce an integrated web presence and are completely put off when they find out how much those rates are. My daughter, who has been working in Germany for the past 5 years, says that compared to what companies there charge for similar work, Israeli companies grossly undercharge. What I’m trying to say is that, in spite of the Web having a global reach, each local market seems to have it’s own tolerances.


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